The Communist Guild

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by NimaGraven
No my friend, you = wrong.

Why? Because I wouldn't have even known about this thread if it wasn't the fact you were galivanting around with a Communist signature!

How about you learn the facts of what real communism has done to REAL people instead of sitting there saying communism is great; and saying that I'm "flaming" you. You started this thread and you have EVERY right to be flamed by people if they find you offensive.

Fine, if you want to be a Communist? You be a Communist, but at least don't do it in ignorance and DON'T thrust it in other people's faces. I'd really have no problem if you'd accept the facts and accepted that it's had it's downs, but the only person who seems to see that so far is Xaenn..

I don't think it's being thrust in anyone's face...We're just saying that we like it, just as someone who promotes capitalism or democracy does. Just because there is so much anti-communistic propaganda out there.....Which btw happens to be from all the rich people who would not want equality.

Lets see, if I started a thread on fascism with a swastika and all, would you be offended? I know a lot of people would be offended. Hell, I've heard people who are offended over Schutzstaffel.. Communism NOR Fascism gain any remote aspect of "respect" from me. They're both as bad as each other and if you can't see how communism has been manipulated time and time again because of the way people are selfish tools of avarice then you are really out of your own depth.

Just that, it's been manipulated time and time again, that doesn't make communism bad, it means people have manipulated it.

This is a place of "escapeism", that's my point. Politics is a deep issue, and holds deep scars for some people.. Especially when the politics of some ideaologies fail to be democratic and some people see some of the era's of reign of Communism as non-democratic, and as bad as Fascism.

Hold communism as an economic system and nothing more...I know I do.

I'm trying to say, if you want this to cause trouble (and it seems that it already is), then go ahead.. But at least have respect for other forum members who share this board with you and make up a FRIENDLY community of people!

I'm not trying to convert your ideals or be unfriendly. How is it any different from people with hentai sigs? They are just putting in what they believe. What is unfriendly about equality?

People ALWAYS corrupt Communism into something that it's not. It's a theory that has never worked. Why? Because people are naturally selfish.

People aren't naturally selfish...However the media tries it's best to teach people the consumerist and selfish ideals.

There comes a point when people have too much control over their lives and since communism in a sense, dictates the amount of control a person has, you take their civil liberties away and then they no longer have any control. The state does.

So in a sense, it is both the system AND people's faults.

Communism /= no civil liberties. I don't care how it has been implemented. That is not what marxism is. (yes, when I refer to communism ever I mean marxism)

True Communism would have you abusing your own workers.

In it's very basics, everyone would receive the same salary, correct?

If two boys attend a school and one is smart enough to be a Doctor and the other one is smart enough to be a road sweeper... (No offence to those who may do this job, it's just an extreme example)

If they both end up on the same salary, then what motive does the boy who is smart enough have for seven years of University training to become a Doctor?

He has none. So in the end, you have an unhappy person who doesn't feel he is being paid for his worth (Such as the abuse of foreign labour, or "slave" labour).

It's not the abuse of workers. Let's see, everyone has the same salary. Or better yet in true marxism no salary. You don't need private property. Your motivation is the product of your labor. You can look at what you have done in your time, and be proud of what you have produced. Rather than looking and seeing nothing more than a monetary value. If you want to talk about no motivation...what you produce in capitalism doesn't matter as long as you can still earn your same wage. So if someone doesn't know you're not working, why work? you still make the same money...

I would also argue that the reason one would become a doctor is so that they can help people and not to become wealthy. The doctor can have much satisfaction after his day of labor knowing that he helped his friends and his community.

Also, it comes back to state control again.

Surely if that occurs, you'd be leaning towards Anarchism which is in the total opposite scale of Fascism.. The people would revolt and try to throw the state out.

Or you get the other extreme.. The state says to people "YOU will do THIS job, like it or not." Leading itself on it's merry way to fascism.

Ah, yeah, anyway.. This post is long. So I'm gonna quit writing now.

Oh, also in Marxism you decide what you will do. You aren't restrained to do only one thing. If you want to sweep roads one day, and help paint houses the next, go ahead. It's fine.

Here's the thing. We associate labor as something we must do. This isn't necessarily true. While we must work to some degree to survive, why work beyond this? If we work so much trying to buy things that don't make us happy, why not work as a community, and create what is necessary to survive. Then in our free time we can pursue what we wish, whether it be to create something magnificent or to spend time with friends.

Edit: and finally. One might not have seen the most satisfactory results when people have tried to implement this system (many reasons why). That's not the point. I believe the reason people join this guild is because they adhere to the ideals of communism. I don't see how one can argue with the ideals....