The Communist Guild

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
It hasn't ended well, but as said before, it did work with I believe when Lenin was in charge. For one, yeah, it hasn't been implemented as properly as it should, but there's only one way to fix that.

Proof...hmm, for some reason I thought that it took a lot more to prove something. You actually proved nothing. Gives the best chance for people to have a better life...no it doesn't. If I recall correctly, the richest 256 people have as much as the poorest 3 billion. That doesn't seem just a little bit off to you? Capitalism is a society run by giant corporations. They run the government (almost all politicians are businessmen) and they run the media. Our whole lives are dictated to us by a few corporate giants. If you wanna talk about power in the hands of few, you've got it right now.

The US is not really a land of opportunity. I don't think that immigrants who come here do particularly well being stuck with construction and fast food jobs... However there are plenty of opportunities for those born wealthy, such as you and I.

Why would communism have power in the hands of few? Remember that communism doesn't mean it has a dictatorship. I actually see a lot more having a say because it won't be a few corporate giants...

I can't be sure, but I know I'd much rather be working for a community and actually to help everyone else survive rather than working so Bill gates can get just a few more million dollars...

A stronger motivation than self interest, ha! That almost cracks me up. What kind of life is caring only about yourself? How about the interest in people you love, your friends, family, to be safe? Or maybe an interest for peace in the world? How about an interest in equality, that millions wouldn't starve all over the world? I'd definately give up my computer, house, and what else not if everyone else would do the same and stop millions from dying every day.

So you would work for free to help others survive rather than take a million dollars. I would like to see you do that. But even if you did, you would still just be one good person while 90% of the other people take that 10 million dollar job. Your friends and family are your self intrests, I am talking about giving up everything to complete strangers. About Lenin, he killed people when they disagreed with him, so that wasn't gong well either. The US has a democracy and that takes the hands out of a few. The immigrants keep coming and bring their families so it is obviously better than what communism gave them. Answer this. One of the three cornerstones of communism is people work because they like to work, how can you believe this and if you do give me some examples why you do?

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by leatherman
So you would work for free to help others survive rather than take a million dollars. I would like to see you do that. But even if you did, you would still just be one good person while 90% of the other people take that 10 million dollar job. Your friends and family are your self intrests, I am talking about giving up everything to complete strangers. About Lenin, he killed people when they disagreed with him, so that wasn't gong well either. The US has a democracy and that takes the hands out of a few. The immigrants keep coming and bring their families so it is obviously better than what communism gave them. Answer this. One of the three cornerstones of communism is people work because they like to work, how can you believe this and if you do give me some examples why you do?

I wouldn't necessarily say family and such is self interests. But still, you don't think it would be great just to help total strangers, and know that sometime when you needed help someone would be there for you?

About half (I think even less) of the US populations votes in elections. Also the only media most of them have access to is mainstream, which is filled with propaganda. How can a democracy flourish when not everyone participates and those who do are misinformed?

The immigrants come because they are trying to escape poverty...but they definately arne't welcomed here and how many really escape poverty?

I do believe that given the circumstances of not having to work, people would like to. I can give you a great example of me liking to. I have spent many many hours working on a card game right now. I don't know that I'll ever make money off of it, but just seeing people play it would be awesome enough for me. I enjoy working on it a lot.

How about anybody who programs in the free time like open source stuff that everyone can use? They aren't asking for money yet give out a good product.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
I wouldn't necessarily say family and such is self interests. But still, you don't think it would be great just to help total strangers, and know that sometime when you needed help someone would be there for you?

About half (I think even less) of the US populations votes in elections. Also the only media most of them have access to is mainstream, which is filled with propaganda. How can a democracy flourish when not everyone participates and those who do are misinformed?

The immigrants come because they are trying to escape poverty...but they definately arne't welcomed here and how many really escape poverty?

I do believe that given the circumstances of not having to work, people would like to. I can give you a great example of me liking to. I have spent many many hours working on a card game right now. I don't know that I'll ever make money off of it, but just seeing people play it would be awesome enough for me. I enjoy working on it a lot.

How about anybody who programs in the free time like open source stuff that everyone can use? They aren't asking for money yet give out a good product.

They have the choice to vote for one. The immigrants find it good enough to stay. You are interested in your family thus it is your self interests. The free ones that don't take money are fine. Does anyone like laying down concrete, nope? You see not everyone will get the fun job. It would be great to help strangers. For communism to work you have to be willing to give up anything that the governement would ask you for. You might like that idea but 97% of people don't, thus communism will never work. I answered all your questions correctly so what do i win?

[Xaenn]

Do you win? I don't think so...A consensus will never be reached though. They don't really have the choice to vote for one...two choices when neither is any good, either way you lose. Just because immigrants don't leave doesn't mean they think it's good...

Maybe not everyone likes laying down concrete...but if everyone doesn't work just one thing. Like I suggested before, is that everyone puts in so much time for things that NEED to be done, and ensure the survival of everyone (like 1-2 hours a day) and then they can work their own stuff the rest of the time. Total freedom of work would be great, but I think atleast a little bit of time would be sacrificed. Still seems a bit better than 8-10 hours a day if you ask me.

Once again you're assuming a handful of people dictating what everyone should do. That's not so though. Why would you be giving anything up if you have all you need? There's this funny thing called sharing, and then everyone has more than if they didn't (except Bill Gates...).

How can many like the idea of communism when they've been fed loads of anti-communistic propaganda? Given the chance people would embrace it.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
Do you win? I don't think so...A consensus will never be reached though. They don't really have the choice to vote for one...two choices when neither is any good, either way you lose. Just because immigrants don't leave doesn't mean they think it's good...

Maybe not everyone likes laying down concrete...but if everyone doesn't work just one thing. Like I suggested before, is that everyone puts in so much time for things that NEED to be done, and ensure the survival of everyone (like 1-2 hours a day) and then they can work their own stuff the rest of the time. Total freedom of work would be great, but I think atleast a little bit of time would be sacrificed. Still seems a bit better than 8-10 hours a day if you ask me.

Once again you're assuming a handful of people dictating what everyone should do. That's not so though. Why would you be giving anything up if you have all you need? There's this funny thing called sharing, and then everyone has more than if they didn't (except Bill Gates...).

How can many like the idea of communism when they've been fed loads of anti-communistic propaganda? Given the chance people would embrace it.

they wouldn't embrace it if they have a choice between it and democracy. I want to keep what i earn. If they don't like what they have get a job.

[Xaenn]

Democracy is a political system.

Communism is an economic system.

They aren't directly comparable.

You're not even listening to what I am saying. They can't get jobs, and if they do, they don't get paid shit.

In communism it's not like you lose what you earn...you'll still have a place to live, eat, and plenty of stuff to entertain yourself. Even if it's not YOUR personal property.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
Democracy is a political system.

Communism is an economic system.

They aren't directly comparable.

You're not even listening to what I am saying. They can't get jobs, and if they do, they don't get paid shit.

In communism it's not like you lose what you earn...you'll still have a place to live, eat, and plenty of stuff to entertain yourself. Even if it's not YOUR personal property.

But i want what i earn, you aren't listening to me. If they don't get paid enough tell them to go to school to better themselves.

[Xaenn]

You're not listening...they can't. Go live in a poor african city, not being able to get an education, and working for horrible pay. How can you possibly get out?

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
You're not listening...they can't. Go live in a poor african city, not being able to get an education, and working for horrible pay. How can you possibly get out?

Pack up and leave. That is how you do it. Are they that way because the government won't let them leave though? Answer this, when has communism worked for 50 years or more.

[Xaenn]

What do you do when you leave? Where do you get the money for the journey? Do you really want to leave your family? Even if you get out what do you do without any money or education?

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
What do you do when you leave? Where do you get the money for the journey? Do you really want to leave your family? Even if you get out what do you do without any money or education?

When has communism worked for at least 50 years? answer it.

[Daedric]

He can't

[Xaenn]

We've already said Marxism hasn't been implemented...so don't you think that's a pretty stupid question?
And about communism lasting, I'm sure some other members would offer you some reasons as to why.

But I still want to see how you are going to survive in capitalism in that situation.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn
We've already said Marxism hasn't been implemented...so don't you think that's a pretty stupid question?
And about communism lasting, I'm sure some other members would offer you some reasons as to why.

But I still want to see how you are going to survive in capitalism in that situation.

People have died of old age there so i guess it has worked. If they can't strive they can at least strive to help get their kids out of there. Life has never been fair.

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by leatherman
People have died of old age there so i guess it has worked. If they can't strive they can at least strive to help get their kids out of there. Life has never been fair.

Strive to get their kids out of there? How? What if they aren't even saving a dime of the money they make? Even so that's not necessarily the point. Why should they have to work SO damn hard when there are people sitting on their asses on TV making millions?

I don't think you would be particularly happy if you had some giant disadvantages and people had a life's not fair attitude to you. If you had some horrid disability you would find that to be a load of BS. One who has it good can say that, but even then does it make it right?

Maybe I should go start robbing people...it's their fault anyway because life's not fair.