The Communist Guild

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by Xaenn


Maybe I should go start robbing people...it's their fault anyway because life's not fair.

Maybe you should but there are actions for consequences. The bible says that humans are sinful by nature and the poor will always be with us. If you are so worried about other people not having enough money to live like an average person then give them your things but don't make others give their things up for something that they don't believe in. The people who don't want to give up their things won't tolerate a system that makes them. Humans are not perfect and don't do what they are supposed to and also what does someplace in Africa have to do with the country of the US. Are you talking about a global communist government?

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn
Strive to get their kids out of there? How? What if they aren't even saving a dime of the money they make? Even so that's not necessarily the point. Why should they have to work SO damn hard when there are people sitting on their asses on TV making millions?

I don't think you would be particularly happy if you had some giant disadvantages and people had a life's not fair attitude to you.

I hate to argue on the same side as leatherman( ) but comeon, the people on tv have talent, that's why they make millions, and it is possible for anyone to get on tv if they have the talent(there are ugly people on tv before you say they are only on tv cause they are good looking)


and I personally came from a poor familly, and I can say that I agree with the lifes not fair attitude, it isn't fair, so what? because of the great capitalist system I was still able to work my way up to a really well off person now.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Originally posted by karragh
I hate to argue on the same side as leatherman( ) but comeon, the people on tv have talent, that's why they make millions, and it is possible for anyone to get on tv if they have the talent(there are ugly people on tv before you say they are only on tv cause they are good looking)


and I personally came from a poor familly, and I can say that I agree with the lifes not fair attitude, it isn't fair, so what? because of the great capitalist system I was still able to work my way up to a really well off person now.

THANK YOU FOR ENFORCING MY ARGUMENT AGAINST COMMUNISM. Capitalsim is the worst system out there, except for all the others.

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by karragh
I hate to argue on the same side as leatherman( ) but comeon, the people on tv have talent, that's why they make millions, and it is possible for anyone to get on tv if they have the talent(there are ugly people on tv before you say they are only on tv cause they are good looking)


and I personally came from a poor familly, and I can say that I agree with the lifes not fair attitude, it isn't fair, so what? because of the great capitalist system I was still able to work my way up to a really well off person now.

I wasn't saying they have no talent, but there's definatel NO reason they deserve to earn that much. But I guess our priorities are WAY out of wack. Personally I believe doing something that helps people is more important...I may be a minority though. Yes there are ugly people on TV, but not that many...

Also that's really cool they you were able to work your way up. But the thing that bothers me is the people who START WITH, or INHERIT if you will, tons of wealth and don't have to do shit to earn it.

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn
But the thing that bothers me is the people who START WITH, or INHERIT if you will, tons of wealth and don't have to do shit to earn it.

yah but there parents earned it, or there parents parents, or so forth, and these people worked hard so that their kids could be well off, so even if they didn't earn it, it was still properly earned by someone.

and as for how much money celebrities make, it's called common sense , if a celebrity, say an actress, does a service, the service reaches millions of people, which meens they are getting payed more because more people are benefiting from their service.

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by karragh
yah but there parents earned it, or there parents parents, or so forth, and these people worked hard so that their kids could be well off, so even if they didn't earn it, it was still properly earned by someone.

and as for how much money celebrities make, it's called common sense , if a celebrity, say an actress, does a service, the service reaches millions of people, which meens they are getting payed more because more people are benefiting from their service.

Yeah, they earned it to some point, but eventually a line is drawn where they aren't earning it anymore but just stealing it (foreign labor anyone?). I guess I don't see why the wealth shouldn't be shared. My main criticism with capitalism however is it makes everything overly profit orientated, and creates an awful consumer culture.

Anyway, celebrities don't really do a service. They just act and it gets recorded. I suppose you could say it's a service, but what about scientists and researchers and teachers? Aren't they really who's building the foundations for everyone? Given that researchers and scientists/engineers do get paid well, it's their innovations which can benefit everyone more than a TV show or Movie to watch.

I guess I don't like the ways priorities are shifted by capitalism.

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn
Yeah, they earned it to some point, but eventually a line is drawn where they aren't earning it anymore but just stealing it (foreign labor anyone?). I guess I don't see why the wealth shouldn't be shared. My main criticism with capitalism however is it makes everything overly profit orientated, and creates an awful consumer culture.

Capitalism is good for the economy, if people who work harder get payed more, and it costs money to buy everything, then people will work harder in order to get more money to get things, and these things will be of a better quallity as they will be made better, as the people who made them want to make more money, and all this productivity increases the wealth of the entire country,

Anyway, celebrities don't really do a service. They just act and it gets recorded. I suppose you could say it's a service, but what about scientists and researchers and teachers? Aren't they really who's building the foundations for everyone? Given that researchers and scientists/engineers do get paid well, it's their innovations which can benefit everyone more than a TV show or Movie to watch.

I guess you don't understand the importance of emotions then
emotional well being can be very important, and enternainment is a huge factor in this.
alot of actors go too alot of work for movies and tv shows too you know, I can't think of any really good examples off the top of my head unfortunatly, as the only one I can think of is stupid Toby Mcguire (who had to loose lot's of wieght and exercise and stuff for the part of Peter Parker)
And frankly, engineers and researchers you say, now how many of the common people can you honestly say, benefit from an engineer who makes sure the coke machines at his office works? (guess you should really specify the job of the engineer, eh?)

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by karragh

Capitalism is good for the economy, if people who work harder get payed more, and it costs money to buy everything, then people will work harder in order to get more money to get things, and these things will be of a better quallity as they will be made better, as the people who made them want to make more money, and all this productivity increases the wealth of the entire country,

[/B]

I don't think people necessarily work harder because they want more money. Look at how most people slack off really bad at their jobs. Because they are really pointless, mundane, and there's no real motivation to work harder. They might get a raise or promotion, but for jobs far down on the ladder probably not. Let's say someone works at Mc Donalds. They feel nothing for their company, and they don't care about making this shitty food, why are they going to work hard?

I also think that it really goes to show quality is lowered in capitalism. If a company can save a few bucks on each product by cutting some corners then it will save them millions in the end. They are definately going to do that. Plus while the wealth of a few may increase, in order for capitalism to work there has to be many poor. There has to be a very powerful upper class and MANY lower class workers supporting their productions.

I guess you don't understand the importance of emotions then
emotional well being can be very important, and enternainment is a huge factor in this.
alot of actors go too alot of work for movies and tv shows too you know, I can't think of any really good examples off the top of my head unfortunatly, as the only one I can think of is stupid Toby Mcguire (who had to loose lot's of wieght and exercise and stuff for the part of Peter Parker)
And frankly, engineers and researchers you say, now how many of the common people can you honestly say, benefit from an engineer who makes sure the coke machines at his office works? (guess you should really specify the job of the engineer, eh?)

Ok, to be quite honest, I think that about 99% of TV and Movies are complete and utter bullshit. A bunch of fucking hot women and stupid lines. Not a lot of real value there, IMO. Also showing these beautiful anarexic models promotes low self esteem. Given all that, there are probably some actors/actresses that work really hard. But any harder than any hard working individual?

OK, without the research of scientists, we'd have no advancements in medecine, no transportation, and we wouldn't be on the computer right now. Is that enough value?

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn


I don't think people necessarily work harder because they want more money. Look at how most people slack off really bad at their jobs. Because they are really pointless, mundane, and there's no real motivation to work harder. They might get a raise or promotion, but for jobs far down on the ladder probably not. Let's say someone works at Mc Donalds. They feel nothing for their company, and they don't care about making this shitty food, why are they going to work hard?

yes they will work hard, cause they want to keep there job so they can(chances are if they are at mcdonalds) spend the money on dates and other things. And what do you meen no promotions low down on the ladder? how do you think people get high up?

I also think that it really goes to show quality is lowered in capitalism. If a company can save a few bucks on each product by cutting some corners then it will save them millions in the end. They are definately going to do that.

yah but the problem with you theory there, they are deffinatly NOT going to do that, because in the modern world every product is being made by multiple companies, and if they cut corners to save money, people are going to prefer there competitions products, and by cutting corners they are actually going to lose money.
I work for a company, and we always try and produce the highest quality of our product possible, because we know that way we will make more money, especially in this world, where our product can be tried way before people decide whether to buy it or not.

Ok, to be quite honest, I think that about 99% of TV and Movies are complete and utter bullshit. A bunch of fucking hot women and stupid lines. Not a lot of real value there, IMO. Also showing these beautiful anarexic models promotes low self esteem. Given all that, there are probably some actors/actresses that work really hard. But any harder than any hard working individual?

okay, first of all "beautiful anarexic models" are in magasines and tv commercials, not movies and tv, people are hired for those based on their acting ability, not the size of their breasts and wastes (except of course movies like freddy versus jason *cough*Laurie*cough*)
secondly, the quality of tv shows is a HUGE discussion, better suited for it's own thread or for msn of course.

OK, without the research of scientists, we'd have no advancements in medecine, no transportation, and we wouldn't be on the computer right now. Is that enough value?

Yah, so what's your point? those people get paid a HELL of alot, the ones who cure diseases, or invent things like the internet, they get paid for there hard work, just like anyone else.
please tell me what point you were trying to prove by this, I'm having multiple discussions right now so my thoughts are admitidly kind of fragmented.

[Xaenn]

I'm just trying to say capitalism sucks. You can go on to your other debates if you want. XD

Once again we are arguing on the nature of people, which really doesn't have much to do with economic systems...or does it?

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn
I'm just trying to say capitalism sucks. You can go on to your other debates if you want. XD

Once again we are arguing on the nature of people, which really doesn't have much to do with economic systems...or does it?

Capitalism doesn't suck, as stated in above post.

other debates, good that you assume all I do is argue, that's fairly accurate

this is the "communist guild" last I checked we are talking about the economic systems but sure, if you want to get into the nature of people...

people whose nature is to complain about the un-fairness of life, and choose to blame others for there problems, choose communism.
People who are willing to work for what they deserve, and admit life is unfair so work around it instead of complain, choose capitalism.

[Xaenn]

I find that rather offensive given that I am pretty well of I still think there should be communism. It's pretty hard to oversimplify it, and it really goes back to many of my other posts.

What else do you do besides argue on a message board?

I was saying that the reasons we disagree is because we disagree about the nature of people.

[karragh]

well, I actually studied economics in university during my undergraduate years, and I can say that what I said about communism and capitalism stand up fairly well.

They were delibratly phrased that way to get a reaction though

[Xaenn]

What's the point if you can't get a reaction?

[karragh]

Originally posted by Xaenn
What's the point if you can't get a reaction?

I guess someone with a five star rating might be able to answer that question for us