The Communist Guild

[Nima D'Graven]

Originally posted by Urn
NimaGraven = WRONG

You just trying to hold, and leave everything as it was.
Youre affraid. Its just bounds of your brain.

Excuse me. But I believe this is the reason why I said political ideals shouldn't be discussed on a forum in the first place.

For your information, I study Politics at school. I'm not the greatest of historians but I know that Stalin was just as bad as Hitler and shock, horror! Was a communist.

So yes, I guess I'm "afraid" of a bunch of people running around going on about communism when they haven't even considered that there's a better time and place for this.

I simply stated that people find it offensive and the more politics you bring onto EP the more unrest you're going to have.

Maybe you want to "revolutionise" the forums, make everyone turn against each other and have 1,000 fights. Whoop de doo, good for you and your "communist" ideals. Congratulations!

But...

Sorry, I don't want to surf a board full of ignorance and arguments on politics every five seconds. I do enough of these arguments in school, every single day of my life. And I can tell you now.

NO ONE WINS.

So, I will say it again.

Communism = WRONG.
Fascism = WRONG.
ANY form of politics on a forum = WRONG.

[Ifrit]

I knew someone would flame us for this... But you know what? I dont care NimaGraven = WRONG. If you dont like to hear political arguments, don't go to this thread. By clicking on the link that clearly says "COMMUNIST" means that you're basically in for a discussion. So just don't click the thread and you'll be fine

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by NimaGraven
You really want to promote a theory that didn't work and led in some extreme cases to fascism?

Please. I really don't think this is the right place for this.

Fascism = WRONG.

Communism = WRONG.

Communism ironically leads to fascism, they're both not nice.. So I really don't think this should be here..

And in some cases...yeah there are those some cases, but it led to something else, it itself is not the same thing. Abuse of foreign labor isn't nice either, however that's something capitalism leads to....

If people corrupt communism into something that it's not, then that's the person's fault, not the system.

BTW it's Marxism all the way!

[Nima D'Graven]

Originally posted by Ifrit
I knew someone would flame us for this... But you know what? I dont care NimaGraven = WRONG. If you dont like to hear political arguments, don't go to this thread. By clicking on the link that clearly says "COMMUNIST" means that you're basically in for a discussion. So just don't click the thread and you'll be fine

No my friend, you = wrong.

Why? Because I wouldn't have even known about this thread if it wasn't the fact you were galivanting around with a Communist signature!

How about you learn the facts of what real communism has done to REAL people instead of sitting there saying communism is great; and saying that I'm "flaming" you. You started this thread and you have EVERY right to be flamed by people if they find you offensive.

Fine, if you want to be a Communist? You be a Communist, but at least don't do it in ignorance and DON'T thrust it in other people's faces. I'd really have no problem if you'd accept the facts and accepted that it's had it's downs, but the only person who seems to see that so far is Xaenn..

Lets see, if I started a thread on fascism with a swastika and all, would you be offended? I know a lot of people would be offended. Hell, I've heard people who are offended over Schutzstaffel.. Communism NOR Fascism gain any remote aspect of "respect" from me. They're both as bad as each other and if you can't see how communism has been manipulated time and time again because of the way people are selfish tools of avarice then you are really out of your own depth.

And, for your information, I listen to political arguments everyday. It's just that this is going too far now and too many people are bringing politics into a place where it isn't really needed. Political discussions always end up with people being personally accused and insulted, hence you saying that I'm "flaming" you when I'm actually informing you of what stuff TOOK place during Stalin's reign.. I.E. It's almost as bad as what Hitler done, if not worse! People find fascism offensive so why should I NOT inform you of the bad side of Communism and how easily it can turn? It just seems all too conveniant that people forget that.

I'm clicking on this thread because I saw you in Free 4 All with a Communist signature. In my humble opinion, people are pushing boundaries too far with the whole politics issue. It's known that you don't argue about a few things, politics and religion.. And I know there's another one, but I've forgotten at the moment.

This is a place of "escapeism", that's my point. Politics is a deep issue, and holds deep scars for some people.. Especially when the politics of some ideaologies fail to be democratic and some people see some of the era's of reign of Communism as non-democratic, and as bad as Fascism.

I posted in this thread, because I saw some of the flames occuring in the Nationalist thread.. That's just Nationalism! And you could make the analogy to Communism.. Not necessarily is it extreme.. But, can be manipulated to be.

I'm trying to say, if you want this to cause trouble (and it seems that it already is), then go ahead.. But at least have respect for other forum members who share this board with you and make up a FRIENDLY community of people!

If people corrupt communism into something that it's not, then that's the person's fault, not the system.

People ALWAYS corrupt Communism into something that it's not. It's a theory that has never worked. Why? Because people are naturally selfish.

There comes a point when people have too much control over their lives and since communism in a sense, dictates the amount of control a person has, you take their civil liberties away and then they no longer have any control. The state does.

So in a sense, it is both the system AND people's faults.

Abuse of foreign labor isn't nice either, however that's something capitalism leads to....

True Communism would have you abusing your own workers.

In it's very basics, everyone would receive the same salary, correct?

If two boys attend a school and one is smart enough to be a Doctor and the other one is smart enough to be a road sweeper... (No offence to those who may do this job, it's just an extreme example)

If they both end up on the same salary, then what motive does the boy who is smart enough have for seven years of University training to become a Doctor?

He has none. So in the end, you have an unhappy person who doesn't feel he is being paid for his worth (Such as the abuse of foreign labour, or "slave" labour).

Also, it comes back to state control again.

Surely if that occurs, you'd be leaning towards Anarchism which is in the total opposite scale of Fascism.. The people would revolt and try to throw the state out.

Or you get the other extreme.. The state says to people "YOU will do THIS job, like it or not." Leading itself on it's merry way to fascism.

Ah, yeah, anyway.. This post is long. So I'm gonna quit writing now.

[Schutzstaffel]

^ I applaud thee.

[Kosmo Yagkoto]

Not one instance has communism ever been good for people. And true capitalism is the worst system ever......except all of the other ones. Its good to talk about other ideas so i will check in occassionally to learn even more of what communism is all about. Thank you

[johnny blaze]

Fun Fact: Stalin was a paranoid fuckface.

[31337D00D]

So was nixon, watergate.

[31337D00D]

Im in, this is the next best thing next to a nazi guild which i would probably get banned for

[Xaenn]

Originally posted by NimaGraven
No my friend, you = wrong.

Why? Because I wouldn't have even known about this thread if it wasn't the fact you were galivanting around with a Communist signature!

How about you learn the facts of what real communism has done to REAL people instead of sitting there saying communism is great; and saying that I'm "flaming" you. You started this thread and you have EVERY right to be flamed by people if they find you offensive.

Fine, if you want to be a Communist? You be a Communist, but at least don't do it in ignorance and DON'T thrust it in other people's faces. I'd really have no problem if you'd accept the facts and accepted that it's had it's downs, but the only person who seems to see that so far is Xaenn..

I don't think it's being thrust in anyone's face...We're just saying that we like it, just as someone who promotes capitalism or democracy does. Just because there is so much anti-communistic propaganda out there.....Which btw happens to be from all the rich people who would not want equality.

Lets see, if I started a thread on fascism with a swastika and all, would you be offended? I know a lot of people would be offended. Hell, I've heard people who are offended over Schutzstaffel.. Communism NOR Fascism gain any remote aspect of "respect" from me. They're both as bad as each other and if you can't see how communism has been manipulated time and time again because of the way people are selfish tools of avarice then you are really out of your own depth.

Just that, it's been manipulated time and time again, that doesn't make communism bad, it means people have manipulated it.

This is a place of "escapeism", that's my point. Politics is a deep issue, and holds deep scars for some people.. Especially when the politics of some ideaologies fail to be democratic and some people see some of the era's of reign of Communism as non-democratic, and as bad as Fascism.

Hold communism as an economic system and nothing more...I know I do.

I'm trying to say, if you want this to cause trouble (and it seems that it already is), then go ahead.. But at least have respect for other forum members who share this board with you and make up a FRIENDLY community of people!

I'm not trying to convert your ideals or be unfriendly. How is it any different from people with hentai sigs? They are just putting in what they believe. What is unfriendly about equality?

People ALWAYS corrupt Communism into something that it's not. It's a theory that has never worked. Why? Because people are naturally selfish.

People aren't naturally selfish...However the media tries it's best to teach people the consumerist and selfish ideals.

There comes a point when people have too much control over their lives and since communism in a sense, dictates the amount of control a person has, you take their civil liberties away and then they no longer have any control. The state does.

So in a sense, it is both the system AND people's faults.

Communism /= no civil liberties. I don't care how it has been implemented. That is not what marxism is. (yes, when I refer to communism ever I mean marxism)

True Communism would have you abusing your own workers.

In it's very basics, everyone would receive the same salary, correct?

If two boys attend a school and one is smart enough to be a Doctor and the other one is smart enough to be a road sweeper... (No offence to those who may do this job, it's just an extreme example)

If they both end up on the same salary, then what motive does the boy who is smart enough have for seven years of University training to become a Doctor?

He has none. So in the end, you have an unhappy person who doesn't feel he is being paid for his worth (Such as the abuse of foreign labour, or "slave" labour).

It's not the abuse of workers. Let's see, everyone has the same salary. Or better yet in true marxism no salary. You don't need private property. Your motivation is the product of your labor. You can look at what you have done in your time, and be proud of what you have produced. Rather than looking and seeing nothing more than a monetary value. If you want to talk about no motivation...what you produce in capitalism doesn't matter as long as you can still earn your same wage. So if someone doesn't know you're not working, why work? you still make the same money...

I would also argue that the reason one would become a doctor is so that they can help people and not to become wealthy. The doctor can have much satisfaction after his day of labor knowing that he helped his friends and his community.

Also, it comes back to state control again.

Surely if that occurs, you'd be leaning towards Anarchism which is in the total opposite scale of Fascism.. The people would revolt and try to throw the state out.

Or you get the other extreme.. The state says to people "YOU will do THIS job, like it or not." Leading itself on it's merry way to fascism.

Ah, yeah, anyway.. This post is long. So I'm gonna quit writing now.

Oh, also in Marxism you decide what you will do. You aren't restrained to do only one thing. If you want to sweep roads one day, and help paint houses the next, go ahead. It's fine.

Here's the thing. We associate labor as something we must do. This isn't necessarily true. While we must work to some degree to survive, why work beyond this? If we work so much trying to buy things that don't make us happy, why not work as a community, and create what is necessary to survive. Then in our free time we can pursue what we wish, whether it be to create something magnificent or to spend time with friends.

Edit: and finally. One might not have seen the most satisfactory results when people have tried to implement this system (many reasons why). That's not the point. I believe the reason people join this guild is because they adhere to the ideals of communism. I don't see how one can argue with the ideals....

[omni_rom]

I got this AP World History test next week, and I was reading my history book and saw this thread, so I decided I would ask.

What's the difference between all of these different forms of government anyways? Like..

Marxism
Communism
Fascism
Socialism
Anarchism
Naziism

and other stuff like that? The book doesn't even explain it, so I'm just guessing that their all the same and are just like communism.

[Schutzstaffel]

Originally posted by omni_rom
I got this AP World History test next week, and I was reading my history book and saw this thread, so I decided I would ask.

What's the difference between all of these different forms of government anyways? Like..

Marxism
Communism
Fascism
Socialism
Anarchism
Naziism

and other stuff like that? The book doesn't even explain it, so I'm just guessing that their all the same and are just like communism.

Marxism:The political and economic philosophy of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in which the concept of class struggle plays a central role in understanding society's allegedly inevitable development from bourgeois oppression under capitalism to a socialist and ultimately classless society.

Communism:A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

Fascism:A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Socialism:Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Anarchism:The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.

National Socialism(or Nazism):a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism -or-The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

[Ifrit]

Man, these posts are the longest i've ever seen on this forum. But listen - i'm not gonna argue with you anymore on this. In my opinion your still wrong. Communism is bad only if people make it bad. All you americans, 10-20 years ago you were terrified of communists. Thats why all you do is criticize it.

And WaffenSSbroli: How the hell can you compare communism with nazism? Your still in though, but i wanna hear your answer.

And i knew someone would bring the "got tentacle" guild up. In my opinion, that guild is a lot more disturbing than this, but i dont go there and flame 'em for that now do i?

[Urn]

Agree.
And Xaenn. Respect.
You said everything to NimaGraven that i wanted.
That man just seems to be too rich and too clever boy.
And just wanted to add...
2NimaGraven :There are much more stupid topics on EP, so why shouldnt we duiscuss that???
BTW. Dont think that youre the only one, who studies politics.
And, if you read first topic, we dont give a damn care about your oppinion. We know perfectly what we beleive in. And youre not big enough to compete a whole Karl Marx theory.
We were just asking, who would join.
And if youre searching for bad things on forum, youve found another one. You, flamer. And please, dont post here again.

[Nima D'Graven]

Originally posted by Urn
Agree.
And Xaenn. Respect.
You said everything to NimaGraven that i wanted.
That man just seems to be too rich and too clever boy.
And just wanted to add...
2NimaGraven :There are much more stupid topics on EP, so why shouldnt we duiscuss that???
BTW. Dont think that youre the only one, who studies politics.
And, if you read first topic, we dont give a damn care about your oppinion. We know perfectly what we beleive in. And youre not big enough to compete a whole Karl Marx theory.
We were just asking, who would join.
And if youre searching for bad things on forum, youve found another one. You, flamer. And please, dont post here again.

I'm a girl.
No, I'm not rich, lol, far from it.
[FLAME]Yes, I'm clever, obviously more clever than you.

This is a stupid topic in my humble opinion, the only one flaming here is YOU which is why I'M flaming you now. Love thy neighbour, you know?[ENDOFFLAME]

Notice how I've been saying all along, when people state a political opinion they get hunted down and flamed for being different, JUST like you are to me. That ISN'T a flame my friend! All I've said all along is that you all seem to be believing blindly in something you have no clue about! At least become informed before you DARE tell me when and when not to post.

Oh, yes, have a nice day.

Oh, btw, Marxism is a theory.. It's a bit different to...... Communism. (Xaenn even admitted this..) If you studied politics then I'd think you'd at least know that.

Why don't you rename yourselves if you don't want to be told what Communism is to real people?

This my friends is why it shouldn't be discussed. Why? Because read the ignorance, they don't "care your opinion" then they flame YOU for stating an opinion, showing they care in the first place.

This is why I didn't respond to Xaenn, because you're getting confused between a theory.. and it's rather poor implementation.

Oh by the way, if you're going on about communism, um, two things:

1) At least don't be democratic and flame me for telling you the truth. Oh, what fantastic communists you are. <-- i.e. this thread is proving how people start to take communism way out of context and start becoming constricting on civil liberties.. I.E. MY civil liberties to tell you MY opinion "You! Flamer! Don't post here again!". You're already proving to me and everyone else by flaming me that if YOU were involved in making any kind of communism it WOULDN'T be democratic and you WOULDN'T listen to your people.

and:

2) I think you should donate all your gil to MasJ.. He is the "state" after all.

Congratulations Xaenn, you seem to be the only sane one who isn't flaming me for stating my opinion. I commend you.

EDIT: I'll probably respond to Xaenn later.